Running With Scissors CEO on The Evolution of Postal and Being a Self-Publishing Studio

Running With Scissors has been around since the mid-90s and has become synonymous with Postal. Can you take us back to the beginning? How did the studio come together, and what was the gaming landscape like when you were getting started?

It was 1996, and we were having a barbecue after I fired someone (an old ritual), and a good friend of mine named Gene Lipkin (former President of the original Atari and SEGA) asked me if I was happy just making kids' games or if I was gonna go for a home run.

That night, I went home and decided it was time to create an original game. Shortly after that, the creative effort for Postal began. I personally started in the game industry in 1982 with the original Atari. It was a very different business back then. When we started working on Postal, the big games were DOOM and World of Warcraft.

The original Postal with its isometric perspective was unlike anything else at the time. What was the genesis of that game? How did you land on that concept, that tone, and that particular gameplay approach?

At that time, all video games were based on shooting aliens, zombies, and monsters. I wanted to do something different. We had an internal engine that supported the isometric view. I wanted the game to be more representative of the real world. I purposely never gave the Postal Dude a first name because I wanted every player to be able to identify with him.

The concept was based on the phenomenon of Going Postal, which was an expression for someone who lost it and went crazy at the workplace. The idea was to present a landscape based on reality where the lead character was being pursued and had to defend himself, or was he on a wild path of violence? Eventually, the contradiction of why he is doing this? Is he the Good Guy or the Bad Guy, all driven by man's instinct to survive?

The transition from the isometric original to Postal 2's first-person 3D world was a significant shift. What drove that decision, and what were the technical and creative challenges of making that leap in the early 2000s?

First-person shooter games were super popular. We worked with a very early version of the Unreal Engine. It gave us a lot of freedom to create an open sandbox world and introduce new scenarios and characters, intelligent NPCs, and liquid physics for fire and piss. The challenges then are the same as now. You can learn technology, but creativity comes from within.

Postal was incredibly controversial when it came out, but looking back now, do you feel the games were ahead of their time in terms of what they were trying to say or do? How do you see those early titles fitting into the broader history of gaming?

The original Postal had many firsts. It was the first game that let you kill unarmed pedestrians. Before that, it was always either people in uniform or monsters and aliens. It was the first game that had a suicide button. It was the first game that set people on fire. It was banned in over 10 countries, but most importantly, it was loved by millions of fans.

Historically, it's always mentioned in the top 10 lists for violent games, but I think it's much more of a psychological thriller, and today, more and more fans are becoming aware of the deeper opportunities it offers. Not only in the freedom to play as you like, but in personal reflection and insight.

Fast forward to today: Postal is on Steam, it's on Switch (which is kind of crazy if you think about it), it's found new audiences decades after the original release (I also feel like it paved way to hundreds of other games). It almost feels like the rise of digital distribution and platform accessibility was made for a franchise like Postal. Do you think self-publishing and these modern platforms have been crucial to the series' longevity?

Absolutely, thanks to Valve and Epic, today we have many independent developers that otherwise would never have come into being. We fought to keep going. We had some hard years, but we never gave up because our fan base kept growing, and being truly independent, self-funded gave us the freedom to do what we want.

You've essentially been self-publishing for much of Running With Scissors' existence. What advantages has that given you, especially compared to developers who are locked into traditional publisher relationships? Has it allowed you to take risks or maintain creative control in ways that wouldn't have been possible otherwise?

In short, it gives us complete control. Can you imagine Activision or EA publishing Postal? Not a chance, and also the mainstream and game media have their input and effect on marketing and perspective. We made the decision a long time ago to simply make games that we wanted to play ourselves and games that are not ordinary, like the thousands of others.

I don't know of any other game that lets you shove a hammer up an elephant's ass or use a cat as a silencer, or makes you piss on yourself when you're on fire to stay alive. I'm very proud of Postal, and quite frankly, I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks.

The indie and mid-tier game market has changed dramatically over the past decade. How do you see the current landscape compared to when you were starting out? What's better now, and what's worse?

The big factor today for Indie digital distribution and many more tools, not just engines, are all available at reasonable pricing. When we started long before Steam, we worked with a very early download system that took 24 hours. It was a very different world, however, while all of this makes making games much easier, it also means there are thousands of games that no one will ever hear about or ever play, even if they're good.

The crazy thing today is that we have young people all around the world thinking they can simply use tools, including AI, to make a game and become a developer overnight, believing they will become successful in the video game industry. The fact is, just because you can go to an art supply store and buy brushes, paints, and a canvas doesn't make you an artist, nor just because you can learn to code faster than ever before, it doesn't make you a great designer. The reality is that creativity has always been and will always be unique to the individual.

Distribution and marketing have been democratized in many ways: anyone can put a game on Steam, reach global audiences, and build communities directly. But that also means more competition and noise. What challenges and advantages do you see in this modern environment from your perspective?

For Running With Scissors, we have the unbelievable advantage of having a brand that was unique in 1997 and has remained one of a kind almost 30 years later. I've always believed that our only competition is with ourselves. We focus on making cool games that are outrageous by any standard for a certain type of gamer. Unbelievably, today, with millions of postal players, we now have multigenerational family members playing.

The Postal Community is a true rainbow of personalities, including very liberal minded individuals to ultra-right folks. However, the ultimate challenge remains the same: how to make a great game is not something that just happens by putting things on paper. It takes a certain magic that can only come from the human spirit.

You've been in this industry long enough to see multiple cycles of technology, platforms, and business models. What does the current state of game development and publishing look like to you? Are there trends or shifts happening now that remind you of previous eras, or does it feel completely different?

I can remember back in the early 80s when one individual was the programmer and the artist. There were no engines. There was no digital distribution, development was much cheaper, but publishing was much more expensive. Today, the main cost for a publisher is a licensing deal with a developer and providing a strong marketing budget.

More recently, we've seen layoffs and closures of developers and publishers going out of business. None of it is a surprise to me. Today, everybody who owns a computer thinks they can make the next Roblox or GTA. It's time for a reality check. I've always been amazed at how people in the game biz or wanting to get in are simply blind to the truth that it is a creative-based industry.

Therefore, the numbers are against you, not in anyone's favor. Look at other forms of entertainment, such as movies, books, and music. There's only a handful of successful titles every year, and that's because magic is not something you can buy.

Looking ahead to 2026 and beyond, what's your outlook for Running With Scissors and for independent studios operating outside the mainstream? Where do you see opportunities, and what concerns do you have about where the industry is headed?

The Outlook for Running With Scissors is greater than ever. We've got big things planned for this year. The POSTAL community is stronger than ever. Postal is now on PC, Steam, PS, and Switch. Later this year, we'll be releasing the master of Postal 2 Redux on key platforms, including VR. Just imagine Playing Pissing Postal on VR.

I think there is a great opportunity for anyone working as an independent, but actually no different than established studios. The fact is, if you set out to make a big hit, you will most likely fail. Our approach has always been, and this is what I always recommend to young developers: simply make a game that you enjoy playing yourself. If you think it's fun, then there will be other people who also think it's fun.

Don't worry about the big hit, your focus should be on providing a great entertaining experience, some people love meat, some people are vegans. It's none of my business. We make games that we want to play ourselves, and we welcome everyone to join in the Postal Universe.

Vince Desi, Founder & CEO

Interview conducted by Kirill Tokarev

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